This episode takes a closer look at how creating supportive learning environments through trauma-informed practices and restorative justice can fundamentally transform the classroom landscape. It emphasises the importance of recognising student’s backgrounds to nurture and heal relationships, thereby enhancing learning outcomes.
This episode takes a closer look at how creating supportive learning environments through trauma-informed practices and restorative justice can fundamentally transform the classroom landscape. It emphasises the importance of recognising student’s backgrounds to nurture and heal relationships, thereby enhancing learning outcomes.
In this insightful discussion, Dr. Kristin Reimer and Peter Langham share their extensive experiences in creating supportive and transformative learning environments within complex school communities. They outline the essential elements for fostering nurturing educational spaces that effectively support students’ emotional and educational growth. Together they also discuss the use of trauma-informed care and its integration into daily classroom strategies to enhance and strengthen both teacher and student interactions and relationships.
Together, we explore:
This conversation is rich with actionable insights and is a must-listen for educators looking to embrace a more holistic and inclusive approach to teaching. Join us now on Let’s Talk Teaching.
Resources:
Special Guests:
Senior Lecturer in Restorative Justice and Relational Pedagogies - Monash University
Associate Head of School, School of Education, Culture and Society - Monash University
Principal - Monterey Secondary College, Frankston North
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If you’re interested in hearing more about the short courses, undergraduate and postgraduate study options that Monash Education offers, please visit: Monash Education's learn more page.
We are grateful for the support of Monash University’s Faculty of Education in producing this podcast.
[00:00:00] Bec: This podcast is recorded on the land of the Boon Wurrung people of the Eastern Kulin Nation. We'd like to pay our respect to elders past and present, and acknowledge that this land was stolen and never ceded. Welcome to Let's Talk Teaching, the podcast created by teachers for teachers. I'm Associate Professor Rebecca Cooper, Assistant Dean of Initial Teacher Education at Monash University's Faculty of Education, and I'll be your host for this series.
[00:00:28] Bec: Our aim is to create a conversational series that's informative, engaging and relevant to your teaching practice. Joined by academics and teaching alumni from Monash University, we'll be exploring the challenges, issues and experiences you might be facing in and out of the classroom. Drawing on their personal experiences to provide you with with valuable insights into the world of teaching.
[00:00:53] Bec: This season, we've explored how supportive learning environments can significantly boost students success and wellbeing. [00:01:00] But what happens in settings where students are facing significant challenges? Well, in this episode, I chat with Dr. Kristen Reimer, Senior Lecturer of Restorative Justice and Relational Pedagogies at Monash University, and Peter Langham, Principal of Monterey Secondary College, who both have experience Extensive experience working with trauma-informed practices.
[00:01:20] Bec: Together they discuss how fostering trust, understanding, and support is vital in creating positive learning environments where students can thrive. They also explore the links between restorative justice and trauma-informed practices. Let's dive in. Welcome, Kristen and Peter. I'm so privileged to have you both here.
[00:01:43] Bec: Kristen, I'm going to start with you. What sparked your interest in understanding positive learning environments? I think,
[00:01:50] Kristin: well, it started in my very first teaching gig, which was a very unusual one. And it was in sort of a place of extremes. And so that's what had [00:02:00] me thinking about what does make for a really supportive, challenging, rigorous, and engaging class.
[00:02:04] Kristin: learning environment. And that was actually in Pyongyang, North Korea. Um, yeah, which was my very first teaching job. And it was there in a place where there was very little trust, where there was a lot of constraints put on people forming relationships between the teacher and the students and also between students.
[00:02:26] Kristin: And that's when I was sort of thrown into that and realized how crucial that Trust is how crucial a sense that you can be yourself in a classroom is and how you really need those things in order to be able to relax into a learning experience.
[00:02:43] Bec: Wow. So what did you do next after that experience, Kristen?
[00:02:45] Bec: Where does that
[00:02:47] Kristin: take you? Well, um, that made me love teaching really. I mean, it made me see how incredibly powerful teaching is, how subversive it is, that it's not a neutral thing, that it's actually [00:03:00] really transformative. And so that was sort of my first go at teaching. I'd been in the field of restorative justice and the criminal justice system before that.
[00:03:08] Kristin: And it was there that I started to see, you The links, because restorative justice is really about relationships as well and about bringing people together. And so when I had that experience before of restorative justice and then of teaching, I sort of became aware of the power of relationality in teaching and decided that I really wanted that to be where I went for the rest of my life, probably.
[00:03:32] Kristin: Yeah, sure.
[00:03:33] Bec: What about you, Peter? Where did it all start for you?
[00:03:36] Peter: I think similar to Kristen, it was out of necessity. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, so the school that I work in now, Monterey Secondary College, has a really complex community. Um, so a lot of our kids have complex trauma and deal with intergenerational poverty, which meant that we needed to become really, really good at building supportive, safe classrooms.
[00:03:54] Peter: Otherwise we were in constant conflict. Yeah, so that, that's probably the beginning of the journey. I think as a teacher, [00:04:00] Um, before starting at Monterey, I valued a positive classroom of my own, um, but leading it has been a whole different base trying to bring people who have, I guess, a more traditional classroom expectations along this journey has been,
[00:04:17] Bec: um,
[00:04:17] Peter: one of the challenges that we've dealt with.
[00:04:19] Bec: So let me take you back to your classroom then. What does it look like? look like and feel like when it's a supportive and positive learning environment?
[00:04:26] Peter: Yeah, it's, it's hard to remember my classrooms all that well, but I guess that it, it comes with relationships first. And I think relationships are a really interesting thing to talk about in schools.
[00:04:36] Peter: I think when, when you come in as a pre service and graduate teacher, you often, Sort of here that what a positive relationship looks like is that you'll, you know, you know, the student's name, you know what football team they play for or what they do on the weekend. You know, you know how many siblings they have.
[00:04:51] Peter: What relationships for me look like now is knowing how my students going to react when I put them in group work or when I challenge them on their behavior and that type of [00:05:00] thing. Um, and so I think my. My, my own classrooms, they were all about knowing those students really deeply, knowing what motivated them, knowing what would keep them on track and really finding the ways to get the best out of them.
[00:05:12] Bec: Okay. And how do you find those things out? Well, you need
[00:05:15] Peter: to know what they want to do. So I spent a lot of my time teaching year 12, uh, year 12 IT was sort of the, I guess where I learned to teach. And so for me, I think one of the really. important questions was what were they wanting to achieve? So the school that I worked at, we probably had about half of the students wanting to go on and get study scores so that they could get an ATAR and, and potentially, you know, enrolling university.
[00:05:37] Peter: For the other 50%, they were just needing to get through with a satisfactory result to get their year 12 certificate. And for many of them, it was that they had an interest in IT rather than, uh, I guess wanting to study it. So it was about building some, I guess, career based skills and, and helping to bridge those students from being in high school to being ready to be in the workforce.
[00:05:58] Peter: And that's a big [00:06:00] jump for some students.
[00:06:01] Bec: Yeah. So you were saying before that you have a, um, a challenging community. So what sort of practices or, or models or, um, ideas around teaching are really useful in your school?
[00:06:13] Peter: In my school, we use a trauma informed positive education approach. We learned about that through our partnership with the Berry Street education model, which started back in 2019 for us, late 2019.
[00:06:25] Peter: It's, I guess, grown a whole lot over the last sort of four years in particular. So that we now have an instructional model, two instructional models. We've got the standard sort of high impact teaching strategy instructional model that most schools would have. We've also got a trauma informed positive education instructional model so that our teachers are learning to do two things at the same time.
[00:06:45] Peter: And that is do trauma informed practices and to build strengths in our students, but to also teach in a high impact way. Um, so the demands on, on our staff are significant. The majority of our staff come into the school either as pre service [00:07:00] teachers or, you know, graduate teachers. So for, for many of them, uh, I think it's an opportunity to learn the best habits in this setting.
[00:07:08] Peter: Um, it can be quite challenging for the staff who come into the school with experiences that aren't like our school setting because they need to find new ways of working.
[00:07:16] Kristin: I was going to ask, when you talk about those two sort of models, so the Berry Street and the trauma informed and then the high impact, how do you see them Aligning there.
[00:07:25] Kristin: Do you see any tensions there? Do they work well together?
[00:07:28] Peter: I don't think that there's any tensions. I think it's just complicated to do all of those things. And I think the best teachers, you know, through history would have taught really well and, and followed these things with or without a model. I think that the models help to give us the language to talk about the different things that we want to provide feedback on so that we can help to coach and develop people to become best practice practitioners faster.
[00:07:50] Peter: And I think that that's the same, whether it's the, you know, standard high impact teaching strategies or the trauma informed positive education. So I would say that they're complementary to each other, [00:08:00] um, but there's probably not a whole lot of direct links between the two.
[00:08:04] Bec: So when you say trauma informed, what's sort of the, the main point of that?
[00:08:08] Bec: What's the, if you were to say trauma informed practice is, what would you?
[00:08:13] Peter: I think it would be about being conscious that. Many students experience trauma, um, and I think just around talking about what trauma is, most people tend to interpret that as what we call Big T Trauma, which is the really significant events that have a really huge impact.
[00:08:28] Peter: I think it's more common for students to deal with what we call Little T Trauma, which is, you know, those repeat incidents that, um, Uh, create barriers for their learning. So they may have had a whole lot of trouble, let's say with public speaking would be a really common one from the time that they're in primary school.
[00:08:42] Peter: They might be being asked to do, um, you know, show and tell, and they're struggling with anxiety doing that. And they just build up barriers that make it harder for them to, to learn. To learn those skills and to be progressing those. So, you know, with reading, it's a really big one. With numeracy, it's a really big one.
[00:08:57] Peter: So then within the classroom, what we're trying to [00:09:00] do is remove anything that may be triggering to a student with any sort of trauma. And if a student has no trauma, they're still going to benefit from this. So the sorts of things that we're talking about would be, you know, rather than shouting at a student for doing the wrong thing.
[00:09:13] Peter: It would be to take your time to stand near them, crouch down beside them. So you're not sort of overpowering them and, um, being in their personal space, talk gently to them rather than calling them out from across the room. So trying to remove feelings of shame. Um, one common strategy is to put the name on the whiteboard for a student who's doing the wrong thing, put crosses against them.
[00:09:33] Peter: So that's all the things that will bring shame. Bring shame about for, for some students. Um, so we avoid doing those types of things. And what we would ask for is for our teacher to first check in with the student and to try to resolve whatever the, the issue is on the spot. If they're not able to do that, then we have a system, sort of a text.
[00:09:50] Peter: Um, and then we have a, an on campus support system where they would seek support. We have somebody sort of rostered on to come in and support them, and they would come and have that check in with the student. They might remove the student from the classroom [00:10:00] for a little bit of time, um, to co regulate with them and bring them back into the classroom in the right way.
[00:10:05] Bec: Kristen, I wonder, are there some links here with your work in restorative justice?
[00:10:10] Kristin: Oh, absolutely. So the sort of most holistic restorative justice practice is trauma informed um, practice. And so right at its core is recognizing the humanity of everybody. The fact that everyone has those different needs.
[00:10:25] Kristin: Some, um, have backgrounds with the little T or the big T trauma. Everyone has their own story that are multiple stories that they enter into. a room or a situation with. And so, sort of the, the core is first of all to recognize that humanity, to see the inherent value of each person, and to really value our interconnections.
[00:10:46] Kristin: And then, the idea within schools is how do we really build on that? that sense that we're tied together. How do we build those relationships? How do we maintain those relationships or evolve those relationships? And then when something happens, how [00:11:00] do we repair those relationships? And so the focus is not on a rule has been broken and therefore this is what will happen to every single person because consistency is the only thing we want, but it's about, okay, someone's been harmed.
[00:11:14] Kristin: Or a relationship has been harmed or there's been some sort of disruption to our sense of safety or community or whatever it is. But that's the important stuff. Like, it's how people have been affected. That's what's really important here. And then in restorative, we have a number of different processes that you can go through to then think about, first of all, simply what's happened.
[00:11:36] Kristin: Kind of opening up the question rather than, I know what's happened, but really opening up with curiosity, like what has happened here, who's been affected, what's been the impact of whatever's occurred, and then how do we make things as right as possible. So there are oftentimes you'll see sort of restorative questions.
[00:11:56] Kristin: And so a lot of people know restorative practice through that. It's [00:12:00] not. So much that the questions are the only way to go. There's not any magic within the questions, but there's something about the questions that open up space for some storytelling and for some listening, and then open up some space to actually uncover what the needs are of the people involved, and to think through how can we actually, in a real way, meet those needs, rather than simply having a set way to respond all the time, which will work for some.
[00:12:25] Kristin: And so it's really just, in some ways, recognizing the reality of different situations and, um, thinking through what is real accountability and how do we actually heal people. Uh, either individuals or a sense of community or a sense of safety.
[00:12:44] Bec: Yeah. In both approaches though, I feel there's, um, a lot for teachers to learn, but also a lot for students to learn.
[00:12:52] Bec: So let's start with the teachers. How do we support teachers with this work? How do we help them?
[00:12:58] Peter: What we do now, um, [00:13:00] I guess from the time that a teacher joins our school, we start with a strong induction process, but we're really clear that you're not going to learn everything in one day. So in fact, even before we begin inducting, it's recruiting, we're really intentional about who we recruit and in painting the reality of the school through that process.
[00:13:16] Peter: So it's, It's a challenging school and it's not for everybody, but for the people who, you know, really value making an impact on the world, um, it's often the best place for those people. And so it's, yeah, by being really clear about it, we get the right people into the school. Then when we bring them in, we make really clear that everybody's going to be coached and they're now.
[00:13:34] Peter: Um, I guess every teacher is assigned three coaches who work in tandem. Um, some with the focus on the high impact teaching strategies. Some with the trauma informed positive education. Some people will need a lot of coaching. Others will need less, um, but we're making sure that everything is tied to, I guess, the evidence that says, you know, the These are the practices that are going to work.
[00:13:53] Peter: And we've then put that, that, that evidence into our context to make sure that he's having that impact. So I [00:14:00] guess when we do have those incidents where there has been a, um, cause to a relationship. So for example, they're a student and teacher have had a confrontation of some description. Kristen mentioned there being curious about it and making sure to understand everything.
[00:14:13] Peter: And so we will always. Um, I'm not sure that we have a really thorough investigation into what was the cause. Oftentimes I think if we have the student, particularly the younger students, try to explain what they felt, some of them won't be able to explain it in a way and actually need the advocacy of an adult.
[00:14:31] Peter: So oftentimes, you know, we might review some CCTV footage for example. To get a greater understanding, we might see one of our teachers who might be, you know, a fairly large male, for example, standing over a much younger person who's sitting down. They may be well intentioned and it might've just been that had they sort of squat next to them, they'd get a really different outcome.
[00:14:50] Peter: So it's those little things that, like, the student may not be able to make it clear that That was what was triggering for them. So we're looking for those things that support that. And [00:15:00] I think we're all learners. So we're all going through this journey all of the time. And we're being vulnerable with our staff and explaining the things that we go through and learn as leaders within this space as well.
[00:15:10] Peter: Um, and we're all trying to get better all the time.
[00:15:12] Kristin: I love that and I love just all the different ways that you're supporting those teachers or the coaches, but then also just that, that sense that we are learners, you know, all of us are on this journey and figuring these things out and we can't get it right, you know, and that's just being human.
[00:15:26] Kristin: And I think like for me too, one of the things I love is engaging in the teacher education classes. And I think for me, that's a space that I can really have those discussions with the people who are really excited about making that impact, you know, but also. It's a very scary part of teaching to think about that complexity of all the humans and all the needs that are with you in the classroom.
[00:15:51] Kristin: So how do you actually go into that space and feel somewhat confident and somewhat competent, but also open enough to [00:16:00] not have to come in with just one set way to do it? And what we do in our classes here. is, I run it as a restorative classroom so that the students here are also experiencing the very things that, um, they might be bringing into the classrooms.
[00:16:17] Kristin: And so we run our classes in circle. And so when we're engaging in discussion about class readings, it's about a co construction of those readings because everyone's bringing their experience and adding in insights and co constructing our understanding. And that way. The students are experiencing what it, or the teacher education students are experiencing what it feels like to have that space presented to them, but also to be positioned as someone who's really responsible for co constructing our sense of a community.
[00:16:49] Kristin: And then we also practice some of the different ways that when things are disrupting our sense of a classroom community, how do we actually deal with that together? Because I think it's really hard Like if you haven't [00:17:00] actually experienced that as a student, and most of us haven't experienced those things as students, we've been, um, had different experiences and some very positive and some not so positive.
[00:17:10] Kristin: And so it's hard to think through different ways. Like you were talking before about other teachers who had come from other environments and like what that, means coming into your environment? Cause that's a very different one, potentially from what they've had before. And so I think it's really important for all of these things that we think through of it, not just in terms of, you know, what we do to students, but how do we How do we interact with one another as adults?
[00:17:38] Kristin: What do we need and what do our students need? And think of us much broader as that community. And that's what I hear from what you're saying in terms of we're all learners. You know, we're all part of this. We have different roles and responsibilities. But we're still all humans who are together trying to figure this stuff out.
[00:17:56] Bec: I'm sort of hearing a sense that people need to be confident yet vulnerable at the [00:18:00] same time. Yes. Um, yeah, it's really tricky. It's a, it's a really tricky space to be in, but it sort of seems Like what you're asking of them is, is have some confidence, be the leader of the classroom and the facilitator of the learning.
[00:18:14] Bec: But at the same time, remember you're learning to remember to be open, remember to see the humanity, remember to crouch down and, and, and be a little bit vulnerable at, at the same time. So there is a lot to ask there. Like you're saying, it is, it is a complex sort of space. So that support for teachers, I imagine, is, It's really significant in, in the learning and the development of the skills to be in this space.
[00:18:38] Kristin: Yeah. And I think like you were talking about before, like some of those models, you know, that are really helpful, especially I think for new teachers when you're entering into that space and you just don't know. And like Parker Palmer, which is someone that we use in our classes, talks about how that technique is what you need until the teacher inside you, or I'm not getting the words right, but until the teacher within shows [00:19:00] up, you know?
[00:19:00] Kristin: And so. Technique or, you know, learning that sort of step by step is important, but it also has to fit in with who you are and who you teach and, and teaching who you are. And so, I think we can, we can talk those things through, but then also, like, I love teacher education classes because it's that sort of low risk space to be trying these things out, like, who am I as a teacher?
[00:19:22] Kristin: And so, I'm going to try this. I'm going to see how it feels. So it's a space, that's a space to risk and be vulnerable at the same time as getting some feedback and some potential models and potential techniques that you can try out until you can make them your own.
[00:19:40] Bec: So how do students. Understand these models.
[00:19:43] Bec: How do students play a role in this? The
[00:19:45] Peter: students at my school, they, I guess the instructional models are visible in every classroom. So they see that they hear the language all of the time. So, you know, their class will typically start with a feelings gauge. And that's asking them typically to check in where they're at, how they're feeling, sort of on a one [00:20:00] to five scale, using their hands in front of their chest so that it's not visible to everyone else in the room.
[00:20:04] Peter: And then the teachers at the front of the room, they're monitoring that, the sort of Work out who might be a little bit off today. Someone who might normally present as a five might have a three and that's worth some you know, noting and, and checking in with them. Someone who would typically be a three might be at a zero and you know, they might need some real support.
[00:20:21] Peter: And so the students hear about this and they see this all of the time. So I wouldn't think that there's anything that they see in our classrooms that they don't understand what it is. I think that actually have more understanding of our trauma informed work than our high impact teaching strategies, although they're both visible.
[00:20:37] Peter: school. I think with our, with our kids, the other pretty important thing for us from the time that they begin in year seven until they complete year nine, there's a one period a week dedicated to a subject that we called All About Me, which is where we actually go through and teach them a range of different, I guess, strategies to manage their social and emotional and build their social and emotional literacy.
[00:20:56] Peter: Within that, we, we have a focus on the via character [00:21:00] strengths. So we actually teach our students about those strengths and then what. um, There's a lot of things that, that, that we can do to help with that. So, um, Um, but I think one of the things that, that teachers in other classes will be doing is they'll be spotting those strengths in students.
[00:21:08] Peter: I noticed that you've used bravery in this way today, and they're highlighting that. They try to build our students sense of self because they don't always have a, I guess, a strong identity. The other, I think, really important thing that happens through that class is that on the, the very first session of the very first day of year seven, all students will design what we call a ready to learn plan.
[00:21:27] Peter: So they'll go through the process of Writing down the strategies that they can use when they're not ready to learn. And that's the language that we use every day. So if you're not ready to learn, we're going to use one of these strategies. And for most students, that strategy will either be in the classroom.
[00:21:41] Peter: It might be using a fidget toy or putting their head down for a few minutes, or it might be leaving the classroom, getting a, having a walk, having a drink, checking in with somebody who's roving around, making sure that everything is okay. And so they're, they're learning that from their first day of school.
[00:21:55] Peter: Which means, I guess, that all of the conversations with those students change. So [00:22:00] when you can see somebody is maybe presenting with a zero in their feelings check in, you might say, I can see that things aren't quite right. Do you need to use your Ready to Learn plan? Do you need to have a check in with somebody?
[00:22:10] Peter: And so they're exposed to it every single day and they're seeing all of their peers, you know, dealing with the same supports. So there's not a sense of shame with that either.
[00:22:19] Kristin: Yeah, there's so many things that I love in that, like the, the power of that consistent language, you know, so just knowing what sort of, what you might be asked, like some of those questions, knowing what those strategies are, and then also really, you know, offering that space to the students too, like, I see, I see this, you know, so I'm, I'm noticing you, but what do you think, like, what do you need at this point?
[00:22:42] Kristin: That, um, that agency, that space for agency, too. And I think students, like your question about, you know, how do students respond to these things? I mean, when it's connecting to the things that matter, students get it, right? So it's, it's about them being seen, them being heard, their needs [00:23:00] being met. It's about that.
[00:23:01] Kristin: the social connections, which, you know, for most of us, that is the stuff that's we're really most concerned about. And so when that's at the center, and then we have ways to get to that, like it's, it makes sense to students. And there's so many things about schools that, that don't make sense and that feel a bit incoherent.
[00:23:23] Kristin: And I think that's the stuff when we start to, you know, when we all start to feel a bit unsettled or we think it's sort of arbitrary or random or whatever, but it's, it's when the stuff makes sense and we have consistent ways to deal with it, but not so rigid that we can't actually respond to the flexibility of a situation or to individual needs, then I think students really respond, um, respond well to that.
[00:23:49] Bec: So these sorts of positive environments, you know, you talked about it's very different now that you're leading one. So leading them, setting up, sustaining them, what does it take? [00:24:00]
[00:24:00] Peter: Yeah, it's very challenging. I think when we first sort of sat to begin this conversation, I think Kristen and I both Recognize it was necessary for us to take the steps that we did so that we could support complex students in complex settings.
[00:24:15] Peter: And I think for us, we would've never seen at the time that we began this journey, would've never seen the school looking like it looks like now. So we've, I guess we're, you know, building the airplane as we fly it. As such, we are responding to student need all the time. You know, the ready to learn plans are probably the first thing that we introduced when we began our partnership with the Berry Street education model.
[00:24:38] Peter: And what that looked like initially was, you know, kids out of the class all of the time, often, you know, using it, uh, as a way to connect with their friends when they should have been learning. And so then what we've done is to keep them in place, but to sort of track and monitor how many times students are using them.
[00:24:55] Peter: So who are those students who are maybe taking advantage of the You know, this leniency [00:25:00] and to then put plans for them in place, which will be, you know, for the next three weeks, you're only using ready to learn strategies within the classroom. And, you know, that, that, I guess, losing the privilege of being outside will, when they regain the privilege, they'll begin to, I guess, protect, uh, their use of it more so that they're only using it when they need it because they recognize how important it is.
[00:25:21] Peter: We have a range of different support programs. So typically they're sort of withdrawal groups. Where a student is doing something that they're very interested in. So for example, we'll have students, you know, they might do two periods of what we'd call activate art. So that if maybe they've got a real passion or interest in art, but they're struggling to manage, I guess, manage the, workload of a full week of school, which can be challenging and overwhelming for some students.
[00:25:47] Peter: So they'll attend the two periods of the activate art session where it'll be one teacher to, you know, three or four students. So they're getting a whole lot of support. There's intentionality around building up their social and emotional literacy so that they [00:26:00] can regulate what But there's also that reward of if I'm doing everything right, I'm going to get to attend that thing that's a little bit special just for me, but it's all being built on the fly.
[00:26:09] Peter: You know, those activate classes came about because we had some students who just couldn't manage the full timetable, but their parents needed them to be there. For every period. Um, so, you know, we worked out where we had a little bit of, uh, I guess, you know, some flexibility within our timetable and put one of those in place and we saw success with it.
[00:26:29] Peter: So then there's the art, there's a sport, there's a food and we just keep building in that way. Um, so that we. Can be sustainable. I think, you know, a lot of our work was done during those COVID years, which from a school point of view, not at all by design. I would never wish to go through it again, but we were having these windows of time where you've got six weeks or so where you're able to be trialing.
[00:26:52] Peter: some of these trauma informed practices, and then you were in a lockdown and we're reflecting on what we did and how would we do that better. And then we get a chance [00:27:00] to revisit it and learn from the next iteration. And that kept happening for us. So I think that enabled us to fast track our progress in some way.
[00:27:07] Peter: And then I think the other thing is we've just got a really strong team of dedicated people and we really value staff culture. So we've obviously, you know, you've got sort of staffing shortages, global issue with that. If we're not. supporting our staff and protecting them, then they're not able to support our students.
[00:27:24] Peter: So as a leader in the school, you know, it's, for me, it is staff first so that they can be student first.
[00:27:31] Kristin: Yeah. That's beautiful. And there's so much in that again, like there's so much about that flexibility, about that responding to the needs, but then that being really intentional too, like this is where we want to go.
[00:27:44] Kristin: Let's do it. Let's try it. And then reflect on it and see if it's actually taking us where we want to go. And I think what you said, too, about that supporting of the staff, like that's so crucial. And, um, Again, like so many of these things we actually just put onto the [00:28:00] students without, you know, if it's good for the students, you know, if there's a reason that we think it's really important for students as they're learning and developing and growing socially and academically, there's got to be parts of that that's really good for staff too.
[00:28:14] Kristin: So if we're, you know, if we're not actually doing the same thing, you know, If we're not doing the same thing about proactively building those relationships with staff, having a way to deal with conflict when it comes up with staff in a way that doesn't shun or shame people and in a way that actually allows us to stay connected but deal with the stuff that is bringing those conflicts to the fore, then for one, it's pretty hypocritical and the students see that, but two.
[00:28:44] Kristin: We're actually, you know, just, um, hiding things under the carpet rather than actually becoming a real learning community. So it's fantastic that that's, you know, the, the spot that you start is with staff.
[00:28:56] Bec: I'm a teacher out there. I'm listening to this podcast and I'm so [00:29:00] inspired right now. Where do I go to get some resources and start my journey?
[00:29:05] Peter: Look, I would strongly recommend doing training with the Berry Street Education Model. I think, and in fact, so reading books as well. I know Dr. Tom Brunsell and Helen Stokes have written books that, that I think are fantastic. I don't happen to remember the names of either of them, but there are, there are two.
[00:29:23] Peter: I think that what, what, what, Those books would give you is a really strong grounding in the type of work that we do. And I think that they're, they're very, the books are similar to the training. For me as a leader in the school, when we were first going through that work, I think my interpretation was if, if I was a classroom teacher in a primary school, I could probably do this on my own because if my classroom is trauma informed.
[00:29:46] Peter: Everything will go pretty well for me. Um, in a secondary school, it was a little bit different, because if the period one teacher is not trauma informed, and I'm the period two teacher, I'm going to be dealing with the chaos that that other person has perhaps [00:30:00] created. So I think if this was the sort of work that you really value, I think you'd want to be looking for the right school, making sure that it's a right fit school, and then learning those skills within the school.
[00:30:08] Peter: I think for a primary school teacher, that's probably a really good idea as well, although you could take the same ideas into a school, I think.
[00:30:15] Bec: What about restorative justice, Kristen?
[00:30:17] Kristin: Yeah, I mean, some of the same things. Um, obviously, ideally, you would be in a school that's, is supportive from the leadership down, um, for such an approach.
[00:30:27] Kristin: Um, I would say there are some ways, you know, for teachers who are curious and interested in the approach to be doing things themselves. And the first thing to just, well, I guess suppose the first thing is really just taking stock of your own relational sort of, um, work. Like, how are you currently?
[00:30:45] Kristin: Working to build relationships, how is that working for you, and keep on doing the things that are really working well, but be really intentional about them. Maybe hold them up a little bit higher, uh, within the work that you're doing. But then in terms of some of the more [00:31:00] responsive restorative work, is simply to ask that first question, which is what happened, rather than, uh, moving to some assumptions and listening with curiosity, but providing space for storytelling.
[00:31:10] Kristin: And that there's lots of trainings. There's lots of wonderful trainers within Melbourne, Victoria, and beyond. Uh, I do have a website called Restorative Schools Australia, which has some different, um, resources. We're, what we've been doing is profiling different schools across Australia and with some short videos just to show it looks different in each school.
[00:31:32] Kristin: That's, it's not one way to look. And so we want to just provide schools with a short sort of snapshot of what does this look like in this school? And what can they maybe take further for their own school or for their own educators?
[00:31:43] Bec: It's absolutely fantastic. Thank you both so much for a really, really rich and wonderful discussion.
[00:31:48] Kristin: Pleasure. Thank you.
[00:31:50] Bec: As we continue our journey looking at creating supportive environments for students, next episode we look at the pivotal role of mental health, well being, and [00:32:00] their impact on academic success. Dr Stella Lalitis and Dr Chloe de Rosbo Davies Join us to discuss strategies for fostering wellbeing within schools, empowering teachers to offer the support their students need, and ensuring educators themselves receive the care they deserve.
[00:32:18] Bec: We've included a wealth of practical resources in our show notes that support your teaching journey. Be sure to check them out. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, and follow us on Instagram at Monash underscore education. X at Monash Education and Facebook at Education Monash and tell us what you thought of today's episode using the hashtag Let's Talk Teaching Podcast.
[00:32:45] Bec: We are grateful for the support of Monash University's Faculty of Education in producing this podcast. For more information on short courses and undergraduate and postgraduate study options, head to monash. edu. au.[00:33:00]
[00:33:03] Bec: Thanks again for listening to Let's Talk Teaching.