Play is how young children learn best - but in school, it’s often left behind in favour of more structured teaching. This episode shows how imagination and play remain central to learning well into the primary years.
Play is more than just fun - it’s a key driver of creativity, problem-solving and social connection in early learning. Yet as children progress through school, opportunities for play often shrink - taking with them an essential part of how students learn, reason and make sense of the world.
In this episode, early years researcher Dr Leigh Disney, and teacher and PhD Candidate Hong Chen share practical, developmentally appropriate strategies for keeping play alive across year levels. From imaginative play corners to structured problem-solving, they explore how teachers can balance curriculum demands with creativity - and why it’s so important in supporting literacy, numeracy, identity and emotional growth.
At a time when adaptability, creativity and critical thinking are increasingly vital in our rapidly changing world, play remains one of the most powerful tools teachers can use to prepare students for the future.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Topics we explore:
(00:00) Introduction to Play in Learning
(02:09) What Is Play?
(04:17) Imaginative Play in Early Childhood
(06:17) Linking Play to Learning
(09:06) Play to Support Learning from Kindergarten to School
(14:40) Conceptual Play Worlds and Problem Solving
(17:08) Collective Play and Building Connection
(19:07) Fostering Imagination in Play Over the Years
(21:45) Chaos and Problem Solving in Imaginative Play
(25:04) Imagination in Upper Primary
(26:55) Where Teachers Can Start with Play
(30:00) Balancing Curriculum and Play
(31:45) Final Thoughts on Purposeful Play
Resources:
Special Guests:
Dr Leigh Disney
Early Years Lecturer, School of Educational Psychology & Counselling
Faculty of Education, Monash University
Connect with Leigh on LinkedIn
Hong Chen
PhD Candidate & Early Childhood Teacher
Connect with Hong on LinkedIn, Instagram and X
If you’re enjoying Let’s Talk Teaching, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review! You can follow us on Instagram, X and Facebook, and share your thoughts on the show by using the hashtag #letstalkteachingpodcast.
If you’re interested in hearing more about the short courses, undergraduate and postgraduate study options that Monash Education offers, please visit our website.
We are grateful for the support of Monash University’s Faculty of Education in producing this podcast.
[00:00:00] Rebecca Cooper: This podcast is recorded on the land of the Bunurong people of the Eastern Koan Nation. We'd like to pay our respect to elders past and present, and acknowledge that this land was stolen and never seeded. Welcome to Let's Talk, teaching the podcast created by Teachers. For Teachers.
[00:00:19] Fiona Longmuir: The issue of retention is massive, and we can keep recruiting till the cows come home, but if we're not.
[00:00:25] Keeping people in the jobs and keeping them healthy and sustaining them for a long career, we just pouring water into a leaking bucket essentially.
[00:00:34] James Desmond: I was going into my second year, I was still trying to work out how to teach whilst also trying to work out how to lead, and that was, I think, too much too soon in my career.
[00:00:42] In hindsight,
[00:00:44] Rebecca Cooper: for early career teachers, the pressure to step into leadership roles sooner is increasing. Whether due to teacher shortages, school expectations, or the drive to fast track a career. But many who take on these roles early, find themselves burning out [00:01:00] just as quickly
[00:01:01] Fiona Longmuir: as much as the preparation can do.
[00:01:04] It's a job that is so diverse and so fast and so intense that there's just something you have to get into and take your time with and be kind to yourself with, I think in the first little while to, to get through those. First years.
[00:01:20] Rebecca Cooper: I'm Associate Professor Rebecca Cooper, assistant Dean of Initial Teacher Education at Monash University's Faculty of Education.
[00:01:29] Each episode we engage with education experts and alumni to explore real challenges and innovations in the classroom, providing valuable insights that can be applied to your own teaching practice. Joining me today is Dr. Fiona Long Muer. Whose research focuses on leadership and teacher retention policy and working conditions, and how supporting student agency can help instill change.
[00:01:53] And James Desmond, a secondary school teacher who has experienced these challenges firsthand. [00:02:00] James, I just wanna start with you. Can you just give us a bit of context around your career so far and where you're up to?
[00:02:09] James Desmond: Yeah, sure. And thank you for having me here today. It's a real pleasure to be able to speak to you, Beck.
[00:02:13] So I graduated from Monash in 2021. I did the double degree education in arts, uh, secondary education. And I landed a job at a government school in the inner city, um, straight out of university in 2022. And I've worked there since. So for the last, well, coming into my fourth year now.
[00:02:29] Rebecca Cooper: Okay. So what are your experiences with career progression so far?
[00:02:34] James Desmond: So I actually started there in 2022 and as a graduate teacher, I was one of the debating and public speaking coordinators. Like my first day teaching was also one of my first debating meetings that I had with some students. So I had a, a real taste for a kind of micro leadership role within the school, and that attracted a small time allowance of, I think it was a period a week.
[00:02:56] And, uh, I would go and supervise the debating nights with the students [00:03:00] and supervise some of their meetings during the week. And actually towards the end of my first year, I applied for a domain leader role for the humanities faculty, and I was the successful applicant. So going into my second year, I was a domain leader at my school.
[00:03:15] Um, so that's a middle management role with a time allowance. Um, it's not a leading teacher role. Um, it's a POL with a, that came with the time allowance associated with it.
[00:03:23] Rebecca Cooper: Okay. And so how, how'd that go for you, James?
[00:03:27] James Desmond: Well, I'm no longer doing it and that's not for lack of trying to continue doing it. So I was in that role for two years.
[00:03:34] So 20 23, 20 24, gained some really great experience and um, had some really positive experiences. Worked really closely with my colleagues who are fantastic. And also had some challenges in that role as well. I think in hindsight, realizing that I, I wasn't ready. I put myself out there thinking this was a great opportunity and I was encouraged to apply.
[00:03:54] It was a competitive process. I wasn't given it by any means and reapplied for that role and wasn't successfully [00:04:00] given the role a second time around. So, heading into this year, I'm back just teaching, um, in the classroom full time.
[00:04:05] Rebecca Cooper: Okay. We might dive into a few of those things later on, but Fiona, at this point, I wanna bring you into the conversation.
[00:04:12] You've done a lot of work with teachers and workforce and understanding that sort of career progression space. Is James's story unusual?
[00:04:21] Fiona Longmuir: Uh, I don't think it is. I think we are seeing lots of hope and opportunity for our graduate teachers, for our early career teachers, which comes, I think, as James's story shows with, you know, fantastic opportunities, great development experiences, but also we've gotta be really mindful about what we're expecting or what we're hoping from these, you know, fairly.
[00:04:46] Uh, recent graduates who are learning so much in those first few years, we know how important that first five years is. Leadership is challenging, right? That's, you know, that's why it comes with extra time and all those kinds of things. But just the level of [00:05:00] responsibility, uh, the level of accountabilities that often come with those kinds of roles.
[00:05:04] There's pressure with that. And, uh, when you're still trying to, you know, to figure out. Your daily work, it can be tricky. You mentioned the
[00:05:11] Rebecca Cooper: first five years as being really significant, really important. What is it in those first five years that is so important? Well,
[00:05:19] Fiona Longmuir: uh, I mean, it's quite a well, uh, established, although difficult to prove fact that a lot of teachers don't last past their first five years.
[00:05:28] There's figures around that, say between 30 and 50%, that kind of data is actually really hard to get your hands on. Exactly. Sure. But that's kind of the message that we hear, and those first five years are just massive learning curves. Right. I think anyone we've, you know, we've all been teachers and it's, it's a massive learning curve just to go straight into the profession as much as the preparation can do.
[00:05:49] It's a job that is so diverse and so fast and so intense that there's just something you have to. Get into and take your time [00:06:00] with and be kind to yourself with, I think, in the first little while to, to get through those first years.
[00:06:05] Rebecca Cooper: I think those first few years are really important and there is so much to learn.
[00:06:10] So James, if you could have those first couple of years over again, what would you do differently?
[00:06:17] James Desmond: Yeah, I think I would've sought to maybe find out a bit more about myself before I put myself forward in, in such a way I think. I came from, uh, a background at university where I was really involved in, in various different things, and then going into full-time employment.
[00:06:33] I was really eager to continue making an impact where I could, but the transition from being involved with like clubs and societies or being involved with, um, different things at universities to going into full-time work. Where your colleagues are of varying experiences and ages and you're working constantly with students all the time and you're collaborating with staff and you are working on leadership initiatives and change within schools, like that's quite a difficult [00:07:00] transition to nail.
[00:07:00] Yeah. Okay. And I think in my pursuit of maybe trying to fast track my career and thinking this is a fantastic opportunity, I think I'd be, you know, a really great fit for this role. I didn't really think about, I. Maybe the specific set of skills that I had going into it or nurturing those skills to the extent that they needed to be, um, to really get the role, uh, and do a lot with it.
[00:07:21] I found often that I was sort of trying to teach myself things before doing it, and I felt like I was sometimes. Just didn't have the kind of voice that I needed to make decisions or to really drive that change. And I think a lot of it was just my unpreparedness that I didn't quite have yet. So I think to the question, which is what I would do differently, I would've tried to maybe seek some further professional development in some of those areas, specifically relating to leading other people.
[00:07:50] And, uh, transitioning from management to leadership, I think is something that I'm working on now at the moment. So seeking some further professional development, seeking some further mentorship from [00:08:00]people within the school and outside the organization as well. And probably just working on my actual teaching itself because I.
[00:08:06] Going into my fourth year now, I feel a lot better with my classroom management and, and with my teaching techniques and feedback giving and ability to manage my time. But, you know, I was going into my second year, I was still trying to work out how to teach whilst also trying to work out how to lead.
[00:08:20] And that was, I think, too much too soon in my career, in hindsight.
[00:08:24] Rebecca Cooper: So, Fiona, does this resonate with some of the things that you've found and some of the things that you. Perhaps you would advise people to take into consideration as they're thinking about leadership?
[00:08:33] Fiona Longmuir: Yeah, look, I think it's such an interesting story and an interesting issue that we are dealing with at the moment in the workforce because it's not gonna be unusual and it's going to keep being probably more and more common that our early career teachers are stepping into positions and they do it.
[00:08:50] Just like you did, James. I think because they're so passionate and they're so keen and they're so capable with the right supports around them, but how we put those supports in place is really important. [00:09:00] And I wonder, James, if there's things that could have, uh, happened for you that would've helped you, uh, navigate that a little bit more.
[00:09:07] James Desmond: Yeah. I think my story's not unique. I think it's it's happening all across the sector and I think. Ultimately what would be lovely would be a bit more stability and a bit more assuredness in the workforce and in the industry. Um, there's a lot of change. People are using the teacher shortage to their advantage.
[00:09:24] You know, it is a, it is a buyer's market at the moment, so people are being able to move to schools closer to home or to get to a school that they really wanna work at. And so there's lots of influx and, and outflow as well. And I think as well, having just a bit more stability would've ensured that those things could have taken place like.
[00:09:43] We had a lot of initiatives at my school that we're working on. I think that's commonplace around lots of schools at the moment. There are so many debates happening around ways to teach and there are so many things happening with ways to lead as well. So having a bit more one-on-one mentorship, uh, and having, [00:10:00] not just like, how are you going and how are things happening, but like, you know, what's an initiative that you wanna roll out and how can we help you do that?
[00:10:07] That kind of thing is, uh, only really possible when you've got a really settled environment across the whole sector. And at the moment it's quite turbulent everywhere. So I think that it's emblematic of the wider teaching shortage and, and the crisis that's looming in education that we're kind of going towards.
[00:10:23] And no one's really talking about it. I am all of, yeah, I was gonna say Fiona is fi is, is, uh, we need a million more Fiona. I think, um, those kinds of things would've really, I. I think would help all young leaders and you know, it's, it's difficult seeing colleagues in similar positions and you don't know if they're waving or if they're, uh, asking for help, sometimes not waving, drowning.
[00:10:47] Yeah. Yeah. But that's across, you know, my fellow alumni Monash that I keep in really close contact with and we are sort of all kind of see similar positions at the moment. And it's great. The government's doing a lot with like recruitment at the moment, so. [00:11:00] I know universities are seeing like a swell in enrollments, which is great.
[00:11:04] It would be fantastic to see more done on retainment as well in the industry and we'll see what happens there. But I think getting the balance right is really crucial.
[00:11:12] Fiona Longmuir: Yeah, a hundred percent. I think that's, um, the issue of retention is massive. Um, and we can keep recruiting to the cows come home, but if we are not, uh, keeping people in the jobs and keeping them healthy and sustaining them for a long career mm-hmm.
[00:11:28] We're just pouring water into a leaking bucket essentially. So, you know, those kinds of things are really important, and I think you've hit the nail on the head with the tension that we need to deal with in terms of being able to support this need for, uh, early career teachers to be able to take on these responsibilities is really valuable when it, you know, when it helps.
[00:11:47] And I know you've, you know, you had some really positive things out of it too. It's absolutely enriching and really powerful for your career when you are able to engage in that and get a lot out of it. Mm-hmm. But the other issue with retention that we are seeing in our [00:12:00] research at the moment is it's, um, I, I spoke about the early career numbers that we often hear about, but actually in our couple of big studies that we've got, uh, over 13,000 respondents across a couple of surveys so far, and it's the mid-career group that are most likely to say that they can't stay in the profession.
[00:12:17] And that's really concerning because it's a massive. Resource of expertise that we're losing, you know, those mid-career teachers, the five to sort of 15 year range, they're the ones that are, that should be around to support, support our early career teachers. And they're the ones that are taking on the big middle leadership roles and, and they're the ones that in the next little while are gonna be leading schools and systems and helping.
[00:12:41] Your cohort, James come through and followed them. So yeah, there's a few spaces within the workforce now that really do need some attention, I think. So
[00:12:51] Rebecca Cooper: Fiona, why are these mid-career teachers
[00:12:53] Fiona Longmuir: looking to leave? I think it's a really important one to talk about with James is, uh, they're burnt out. Yeah. So [00:13:00] really the fact that it is the mid-career teachers leaving.
[00:13:03] Tells us that it's not about, you know, preparation and it's not about attraction. It's not about readiness to step into the role, you know, out of university. It's the daily, uh, you know, challenges. It's the death by a thousand paper cuts that after you get. So far into your career, and that's still challenging.
[00:13:22] You just get to a point where you can't do it anymore. And I think there's some other things we are looking at in our, in our lab work that we're doing, um, with some colleagues around, you know, in changing lifestyles, changing life requirements at, at that level. So, you know, teaching's always been seen traditionally as a good profession for.
[00:13:41] Parents. It's really not anymore. It's really not the hours, the workload, you know, we are hearing from our respondents that it, it's really tough. Yeah. So
[00:13:51] Rebecca Cooper: what are the, perhaps the, the conditions or supports that schools could. Put in place for both mid-career and early [00:14:00] career teachers that would actually reap some benefit.
[00:14:03] Fiona Longmuir: What's been really interesting that we've been sort of fleshing out a little bit recently, in the couple of surveys that I talked about, we asked a whole range of questions. We asked about intention to stay in the career. Uh, we asked about workload. Only 14% of all those respondents, um, are telling us that they can manage their workload.
[00:14:19] So that's a big concern. So there was satisfaction was about 45%, uh, off the top of my head. People satisfied in their roles. So a lot of things we were like, oh, this is, you know, a bit depressing. Um, but what was the most powerful thing out of it was 80% of respondents say they feel like they belong to the profession.
[00:14:38] So there's this really, you know, interesting. Sense of identity and connection and, and care and all those things that, that are part of our identities as teachers that are really powerful. And I actually think there's huge potential. And we've just been talking to some groups recently about this huge potential in recognizing that and understanding what's driving that.
[00:14:59] So we did do [00:15:00] some analysis of some of that data and we've got a, a paper out looking at that. But things like having time to connect with colleagues. It's not about sitting down and going through. A bunch of data or having to work towards a particular a IP initiative, but just. Being together and sharing the work, sharing the joy in the work, but also, you know, helping each other through.
[00:15:20] It happens, but it's not, I, it's not as valued perhaps as it as maybe it could be. And if we were able to value those kinds of moments a bit more, the relational stuff. You know, connection with students was another big part, obviously, of that sense of belonging, fun with students, all of those things that we all know and implicitly we kind of do, but they're kind of the things that get pushed aside in the busyness and the pressures and the things that happen.
[00:15:49] So we're talking about, you know, trying to intentionally focus on some of those things a bit more and perhaps that will help people. Enjoy their work and then be able to sort of stay a bit more, obviously there's a whole heap of stuff around [00:16:00] actually managing workload and things like that that can be considered and are starting to be considered.
[00:16:05] James Desmond: Yeah. Can I jump in on that? Yeah, please. I think, um, you know far bit for me to speak for every teacher in the profession, but I think what will resonate with a lot of people out there is three different factors here. The first for me is time. There's just not enough of it. We work extremely long hours. I get to school.
[00:16:23] 45 minutes before the bell goes, and I'm often there 45 minutes to an hour after the last meeting. And then every now and then I'll pull a couple of extra days a month, you know, on the weekend to do marking and to get things ready. So regularly working 50 plus hours a week, and I think the data would suggest that that is quite commonplace.
[00:16:44] So instead of teaching five classes, gimme four classes. Make it so that I have extra time throughout the week so I can give that targeted feedback to my students so I can prepare lessons for them. And that would be a no brainer. It would assist with my students' educational outcomes [00:17:00]beyond a shadow of a doubt, and it would help my wellbeing a lot more as well.
[00:17:04] So time. The other one is money. So many teachers love teaching and they love their work. They love their job. If the money matched the work that we were putting in, so many people would stay. They probably wouldn't go in the numbers. They are from public to private, and they probably wouldn't leave the teaching profession altogether to go into the corporate space.
[00:17:25] So if the money matched the amount of work that we were doing, job satisfaction I think would go up. And the third factor is respect. Like within society, you either know a teacher and you know how heroic they are. Or you think that teachers are just BLS that get 12 weeks of holidays, you know, a year and they just rock up at nine, they leave at three.
[00:17:45] And what else do they do? I still get kind of puzzled looks from people when I tell them I'm a teacher or when I tell 'em I'm still teaching. And their first question is, oh, when are you gonna quit? Or when are you gonna do something else? Mm. And these are people I grew up with. These are people that knew I was gonna [00:18:00] go into teaching.
[00:18:00] People that knew I was studying, teaching people that knew I got a job in teaching. And there's still almost this like, well, it's just a stepping stone to something else and almost this disbelief that you would even consider a career or a life in teaching. So for me, if we were to get the things right around time and how we were spending that time and how we were allocating that time, money, and paying teachers what they should be paid, but also funding their schools to the appropriate levels as well.
[00:18:31] Then also as a society recognizing and realizing just the role that teachers are playing in our society and how important that is. I mean, in so many other societies around the world, Southeast Asia for example, teachers are exalted and they play such a really prominent part, and they're really respected for the work that they do.
[00:18:47] 'cause the recognition is there that without teachers, who's going to prepare the next generation for the challenges of the future.
[00:18:54] Rebecca Cooper: So then James, why do you stay? And how do you survive?
[00:18:59] James Desmond: It really [00:19:00] ultimately comes down to the students that I teach. They are such a motivating driving force for me. I also have really wonderful colleagues that I enjoy working with and there is kind of like a shared experience of going through it together.
[00:19:11] And you know, a lot of my really great friends at the moment are either current colleagues or people I studied with that are now in other schools. And you know, we share experiences and we talk about how great it is and also just the knowledge that what what I'm doing does make a difference and that it is something that is, I.
[00:19:25] Helping the next generation of Australians. And it's something that is, I can feel good about doing it and I think as well, like doing something that matches up with kinda my natural skillset. Like I enjoy being in front of the classroom and, and talking and discussing things and explaining and, you know, guiding people along.
[00:19:41] And also what I teach is really interesting too. So history teacher. Just love history, and it's a really great way to be able to do something I'm passionate about every day.
[00:19:49] Rebecca Cooper: So, Fiona, how can teachers take greater control of their career? It's a good question. I think being
[00:19:56] Fiona Longmuir: sort of open to reflecting [00:20:00] on the opportunities as well as the challenges I.
[00:20:02] Going in open-eyed, seeking out support, not being, you know, not being afraid. And I think that we're getting better at this actually as a profession. You know, teaching has a, a long history, like all the care professions of expecting blood out of a stone, almost as the, you know, that's what keeps schools running is what teachers are prepared to give because they care and because they're passionate.
[00:20:21] But I think we're getting better at being able to say, no, I can't do that. I'm, you know, I am struggling. I have got enough on my plate, I need to. Look at what I can manage and, uh, and realize that that's reasonable and that isn't about being difficult or being not a team player or whatever it might be in the moment.
[00:20:43] But especially for young teachers and especially perhaps ones that are taking on extra responsibilities, thinking about wanting to do this job for 25, 30 years. Think to yourself, how is this gonna look for me in another 10 or 15? Do I wanna be that [00:21:00] mid-career teacher that just cannot walk in the door anymore because I'm just exhausted And pacing yourself?
[00:21:05] Not, not pacing yourself to, not particularly take opportunities, but pacing yourself to say, yeah, I'll put my hand up for that, but I need this and this and this to make that work for me. And I think we're in a market where actually ILI career teachers are lucky. They can probably say that in a lot of cases.
[00:21:22] And it will change the, it'll change the discourse around teaching. It'll change the, um, well, I believe it will change the, um, you know, uh, James and I chatted earlier about kind of being a bit more activist in our stance, a bit more, um, not just about our own. Our own needs and our own, uh, abilities to, to be who we need to be for our schools and for our students and for our, uh, our classes, but more generally in the profession, being able to say, I can look at something that's expected of me and say, actually, I'm not sure about that.
[00:21:55] I'd like to talk more about that from roles of responsibility through to [00:22:00] perhaps curriculum expectations or other things that are going on in our communities, being able to. Realize that that's an important part of the work and that's good for your own wellbeing as well. Taking ownership and, and having that agency is very, it's a protective factor.
[00:22:14] Rebecca Cooper: Yeah. Okay. So if you are out there and, and listening and you're thinking about leadership or starting to think about that sort of career longevity. Who do you speak to? Where do you go? How, if you need some help and advice, where, where do you start? Fiona, I'll start with you and then ask James too.
[00:22:30] Fiona Longmuir: Yeah.
[00:22:30] Oh, I'm sure it's probably not the same answer in every context. Unfortunately. You know, we know that schools are very different in the level of resources and support and, uh, you know, from mentors to stable leadership to just stable staffing. Like there's schools that are turning over, you know, quite rapidly, so.
[00:22:48] Finding someone that that is got that, you know, bit of experience that you can talk to is really valuable. And hopefully there is at least one person, you know, within your setting that you can talk to. There is [00:23:00] some great programs on offer and, and James, I think you're involved in one. So the system is sort of, you know, offering things.
[00:23:07] So yeah, I guess just, uh, looking for those opportunities to learn about what it is that you wanna do and develop. Yeah.
[00:23:14] James Desmond: Yeah. I think starting internally at your own school, for me, it was colleagues that I really respect and admire, and I could see myself wanting to kind of contribute in the way that they are contributing currently.
[00:23:25] So whether that is like a learning specialist or a leading teacher, maybe it's your domain leader who you probably work quite closely with in your school. Or an assistant principal who maybe oversees like staff wellbeing or staff management, that's a good place to start. If you are comfortable talking to your principal, they're more than willing to invest and help you as well, because it's in their benefit as well.
[00:23:46] Then lots of schools will have different programs and different things that are on offer. They could have some sort of emerging leaders, um, cohort of people that meet regularly to discuss next career steps. Or it could be an instructional coaching program [00:24:00] within a school that's run. Otherwise, there are fantastic professional development opportunities available through the department.
[00:24:05] So currently doing one with the Victorian Academy, which is called Impact Emerging Leaders. It's a cohort of teachers in the profession that are sort of at that middle management level, or they have been, and it helps them to refine and work on their own leadership skills and leading an initiative and then.
[00:24:22] Rolling that out in your school, getting some data, reporting back, but it's also about forming bonds and forming networks as well. So that's been really beneficial, uh, for a variety of reasons. But I think ultimately you need to find out where your areas for growth are, and then work on targeting those and realizing what are some of the things you need to do to become more well-rounded?
[00:24:41] What are some of the things that are gonna help you become a better leader? All of this is possible though, when you're at a school that allows you to have the time and space to think about it.
[00:24:49] Rebecca Cooper: Where are you looking to now? What are your aspirations? I.
[00:24:52] James Desmond: I'm sort of seeing where this year will take me. I am enjoying being in the classroom full time.
[00:24:57] I think I've really [00:25:00] rediscovered a renewed passion for being in the, in the classroom and I'm teaching some new subjects this year and that's really reinvigorated me a little bit as well. So that's always good. So I'm really enjoying teaching. I am enjoying doing this professional development program alongside that.
[00:25:14] And I'm just waiting to see what happens. I'm just thinking that if the selling pops up and I like the look of it, then I'll check it out. I have experience from my previous role that is valuable and it is a teacher's market at the moment, more so than it is a school's market. So certainly able to be comforted by that fact that change is possible and that, you know, you have to do what's in your best interest of course, as well.
[00:25:39] But I'm really enjoying where I'm at, so.
[00:25:40] Rebecca Cooper: And Fiona, just one final thing for you. Looking forward into the future, what do you see as being the sort of really big challenges for the teaching workforce?
[00:25:53] Fiona Longmuir: I think we're already in the really big challenges at the moment, really, you know, the things James has described, there's so many [00:26:00] places that are doing it pretty tough at the moment.
[00:26:02] And we need to, we need to look at how we can make some changes to help in those places because, you know, there's generations of not just teachers, but students that are, you know, that are struggling because of the conditions that they're currently being, you know, uh, exposed to. But in saying that, I think that as tough as it is, and I think James mentioned, everyone knows a teacher, so you know, we all know what it's like.
[00:26:29] Even if we're not actually in the profession, we know what schools are like. So we need to recognize that and work to change the perception, the respect, all of those kinds of things. And I actually truly believe that it is a great time to come into teaching, um, because I think we are on the precipice of some really great opportunities to reimagine, you know, what we can do in education and in schooling.
[00:26:56] And we need lots of passionate young people with [00:27:00] the diversity of ideas and the. Willingness to stand up and shout them from the rooftops, you know, in order to, to meet these challenges that we're, that we're currently working towards. So as much as we talk about the challenges, you know, it is a great profession and now's the time.
[00:27:15] Come and come and help us sort it out.
[00:27:18] Rebecca Cooper: Oh look, I think now is definitely the time and our numbers in our initial teacher education programs would suggest that people really do think it is the time. Thank you both so much for joining me today. This has been a really great discussion. Thanks be, thanks for
[00:27:31] James Desmond: having us.
[00:27:33] Rebecca Cooper: Whether you're considering leadership looking for more agency in your role, or simply aiming to avoid burnout, the key is knowing when to step forward and when to step back. A fulfilling teaching career isn't just about climbing the ladder, it's about finding the right opportunities at the right time.
[00:27:51] Protecting career longevity means making informed choices. Seeking the right support and ensuring leadership roles align with your values [00:28:00] and capacity. We've included a wealth of practical resources in our show notes that support your teaching journey. Be sure to check them out if you're enjoying the show.
[00:28:10] Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review and follow us on Instagram at Monash underscore education X at Monash Education and Facebook at Education Monash. And tell us what you thought of today's episode using the hashtag Let's Talk teaching podcast. We are grateful for the support of Monash University's faculty of education in producing this podcast.
[00:28:33] For more information on short courses and undergraduate and postgraduate study options, head to monash.edu.au/education/learn more. Thanks again for listening to Let's Talk Teaching.